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SWEC Castle keep discussion - Printable Version

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SWEC Castle keep discussion - Luke - 06-20-2002

Luke (12:41 AM) :
Hi!
I wanted to talk about the map for the match next Wednesday
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-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:41 AM) :
ok shoot
Luke (12:43 AM) :
We checked the Castle keep yesterday in the training. It seems to be a nice map, but there were two arguments against it:
1. we dont know it (hehe.. not too bad for you ;-)
2. It is not official... it is nowhere in tcz
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:44 AM) :
have you read the rules? We can choose any map we like, as long as we agree and make give the opponent the map one week in advance. This is map is as close to standard it get, its one of the oldest around.
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:45 AM) :
you are denying us the choice of it?
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:45 AM) :
you may choose 2nd map
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:45 AM) :
we choose 1st and 3rd
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:46 AM) :
if a 3rd is needed hehehe
Luke (12:46 AM) :
not so hard... Dan... it is just a discussion... I have a suggestion
Luke (12:46 AM) :
;-)
Luke (12:48 AM) :
What do you think about the following:
1. Castle keep (so you have your own map)
2. Hot Metal (it is the CiA CTF as BETA in tcz... so I hope it will be official soon also... also you know it)
3. Everon (we both know that map... so it is a fair thing)
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:48 AM) :
no good
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:48 AM) :
we will not play a map you guys have made
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:49 AM) :
we enjoy them much, but its suicide to play a top team, on map they have constructed
Luke (12:49 AM) :
That map could be official very soon and at the moment it is a BETA in tcz... if it is official it is a must
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:49 AM) :
You may choose Everon as 2nd map yes
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:49 AM) :
3rd is our choice
Luke (12:49 AM) :
2. Custom Maps are allowed to be used under the following guidelines: Both teams must agree to a match of this nature. If both teams can’t decide or one team is not involved in designing custom maps then the stock rule applies. Prior to a "custom map" match both teams will submit the maps to each other no less than one week before the scheduled match. They will also submit these maps to The Combat Zone OFP Design Team for archiving: maps@thecombatzone.net <mailto:maps@thecombatzone.net>

Luke (12:50 AM) :
We dont must accept Castle keep
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:50 AM) :
what is your choice for second
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:50 AM) :
you cant decisde 3rd
Luke (12:51 AM) :
we dont must agree with any not official map
Luke (12:51 AM) :
ups... wrong sentence, but I am sure you know what I mean:
We dont must agree on non official maps
Luke (12:52 AM) :
We wanted to make an accommodation towards you with our suggestion
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:52 AM) :
you have the right to decline our challange and not accept Castle keep yes
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:53 AM) :
i will accept any map, not made by CIA, as 2nd map
Luke (12:53 AM) :
We want to play with you... but if you come with your map which you played a lot of times and which is not official you could make an accomodation also if we accet it
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:53 AM) :
Caslte keep is VERY std
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:53 AM) :
it was realesed 11 month ago
Luke (12:53 AM) :
we played it 2 hours..no more
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:54 AM) :
they even have a "Castle Keep GOLD" edition due to it being so popular
Luke (12:54 AM) :
That does not help us... we dont play that map and it is not official
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:55 AM) :
hehehe
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:55 AM) :
ok
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:55 AM) :
i hear you
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:55 AM) :
well thats it then
Luke (12:56 AM) :
Hey... moment ;-)
what about 1. Castle keep and then 2 times Everon CTF as 2 and 3 game?
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:56 AM) :
listen, i can see a pattern here
Luke (12:56 AM) :
You can have your map... but it should be allowed to make compromises then
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:56 AM) :
you want to bend the rules
Luke (12:56 AM) :
no
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:56 AM) :
so you cant loose
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:56 AM) :
you want Everon
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:57 AM) :
which is the map you nay choose as 2nd
Luke (12:57 AM) :
Hey guy... if you want to play unofficial maps it is always a discussion.
Then discuss it or choose official maps
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:57 AM) :
and you want CIA maps
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:57 AM) :
and oyu want to choose the 3rd map
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:57 AM) :
i accept any map as 2nd map
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:58 AM) :
officail or not
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:58 AM) :
as long as its not made by CIA
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:58 AM) :
thats a good offer
Luke (12:58 AM) :
nah... then you can choose 2 times yours and we only one time ours
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:58 AM) :
we are underdogs
Luke (12:58 AM) :
Everon CTF is neutral
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:58 AM) :
thats our privilage according to rules
Luke (12:59 AM) :
if you keep it in official maps
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:59 AM) :
No its not
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:59 AM) :
its the one you know the best
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:59 AM) :
the one you want
Luke (12:59 AM) :
hehe... I am sure exactly that is the cause you want Castle keep
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (12:59 AM) :
do you know the word hagle
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:00 PM) :
you are hagleing
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:00 PM) :
trying to make a specialdeal
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:00 PM) :
to your favor
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:00 PM) :
accept the challangem and choose 2nd map,
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:00 PM) :
or dont
Luke (1:00 PM) :
To repeat... if you would not want an unofficial map we would not have that discussion!
Luke (1:01 PM) :
choose officials and no more discussion needed
It is your turn
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:01 PM) :
ok, then lets call this off, and let others know ,that CIA only plays officail maps
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:01 PM) :
?
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:01 PM) :
correct?
Luke (1:01 PM) :
no
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:02 PM) :
i dont get it
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:02 PM) :
you play unofficails, if you can choose 3rd map?
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:02 PM) :
and 2nd?
Luke (1:02 PM) :
You dont accept a tcz BETA map, right?
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:02 PM) :
yes i do
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:02 PM) :
as your 2nd
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:02 PM) :
if its not made by CIA
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:03 PM) :
Beta = unofficail
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:03 PM) :
i accept any map, unnofficail
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:03 PM) :
as long as its not made by CIA
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:04 PM) :
and you give it to me today
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:06 PM) :
Let me know you decision later
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:06 PM) :
tonight
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:06 PM) :
have to work now
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:06 PM) :
bye
Luke (1:06 PM) :
I cannot tell such a map at the moment.
I will show the CiA guys our discussion... perhaps they have got a solution.
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:06 PM) :
ok
Luke (1:06 PM) :
bye... cu later!
-=[SWEC]=-Lt_Dan_Swe (1:06 PM) :
see ya tonight
Luke (1:07 PM) :
cu!






------------
any idea?


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - maddogmattson - 06-20-2002

I say we decline the challenge made. In the conversation I saw no attempt of a favor or rigging to win the match on our part.
It really seems to me that SWEC has some grudge or problem with CiA. He seemed unwilling to even think about the proposition of map rotation for the challenge.
If they will not accept either of the discussed map rotations then I feel that he is trying to fix the match in his clans favor, using Castle Keep as a handicap to better their clan in a chance of a win.

The rules for TCZ state that they have choice of map for 1st and 3rd because they are the clan with less rank ine the ladder. But regardless of this I think we can play well enough to win any map, but they do have as much experience on Castle as we on Metal so I feel that would be fair.

I think we CAN beat them on their own terms but for the sake of them being strange I think we should wait to play SWEC another day.
I will finish with 3 statements:

1.Decline

2.Decline

3.This doesnt seem right, parts dont fit, Decline!

P.S. Luke you did a good job speaking with him I
would have lost my bearing with him If it were me, Keep up the good work! ;-)


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Balschoiw - 06-20-2002

this is a mess....
They want to play their used map and dont allow us to play ours.
OK let´s get back to strict TCZ rules then:

2. Custom Maps are allowed to be used under the following guidelines: Both teams must agree to a match of this nature. If both teams can’t decide or one team is not involved in designing custom maps then the stock rule applies. Prior to a "custom map" match both teams will submit the maps to each other no less than one week before the scheduled match. They will also submit these maps to The Combat Zone OFP Design Team for archiving: maps@thecombatzone.net <mailto:maps@thecombatzone.net>

It is stock CTF now as you agreed on CTF. There is no way round for them now. I they wont accept this they are pretty unsportsmanlike. They wanted to trick us by forcing the Castle Keep in 2 times for one match. This would be a perfect strike for them cause they know the map. The discussion is pretty senseless. Stock CTF then for all 3 rounds. Their problem if they cant offer us a fair match. One thing is most important here:
Nobody cares if they think that Castle Keep is a welll known map as it is not in the TCZ map body. Also they cant blame us for not-knowing that map, as it is not Official.
Back to my path:
They didnt want to take our offer that would have made the match fair-play for both sides !
So now the Stcok rule hits the table and there is no way out. They even cant choose an A/D map or sth like that now, cause you agreed on CTF ages ago. Everon Stock now. If they wont accept that they have to forfeit.



Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Invader_Zim - 06-20-2002

I say we accept the challenge. They can pick all three maps for all I care. We will beat them on Castle Keep, Everon, Hot Metal, or whatever else they want to die on. They pick first - they can have Castle Keep. We pick second - they won´t accept Hot Metal so we play Everon. We win that easy. Third map - Castle Keep again. If we didn´t beat them in the first (I bet we will beat them) we will win second time around for sure. Guys, wake up! Our clan is far superior! It´s time we show it instead of arguing about the rules all the time. Lets play already. :x


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Luke - 06-21-2002

There is no cause for a forfeit. All but the map was fixed for the match. So it was not completely fixed. Also there were no "this is a CTF match discussion" >> they could choose A/D map also.

There are obviously two opportunities:

1. not to accept their unofficial map and to tell tcz to remove the challenge cause of it (we cannot declinde an obligat challenge). Perhaps SWEC can remove it also.

2. to go Zims way and crush them

"rule 34b against 23c in combination with 89b and 93" discussions dont help us here. It is easy... to play or not to play. If we play then it will be
1. Castle Keep
2. Everon
3. Castle Keep

Now you all can vote:

Luke: play


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Lobanak - 06-21-2002

play


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - maddogmattson - 06-21-2002

This chidish behavior on SWEC is unacceptable.
I vote Play anyway.


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Llauma - 06-21-2002

Not play.


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - White_Fang - 06-21-2002

Comrades i play in GS w SWEC and Castle ..... map was favorite CTF map what SWEC play. They know this map wery good. East side have wery long time to come flag defense after respawn. West side have possible defend flag in respawn area. Of corse if east soldier was in west base he can shoot all west soldiers who respawned :-) I say CiA have good soldiers and if u training this map monday and tuesday - possible u win match. I guess make server on ASE and training this map before play it w SWEC.
I come 100% play 26.06 w SWEC
If u play and win it is good feeling to all us - if u play and lose hmm... - who not risk that not drink champagne after victory Big Grin Big Grin


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Balschoiw - 06-23-2002

I will not play. I will stand back for other comrades to match SWEC on Castle Keep.


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Luke - 06-23-2002

ok... there are a lot of guys who want that match and some who does not want it.
So the guys who want it can play the match (and if they loose the other will hopefully not be angry ;-)
I will ask for comments in our training before match this evening.

But then we should tell tcz to tell the teams in the forum that it is not a must to accept an unofficial map. I know other team who played against SWEC on that map without knowing it (but they won :-)


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Iljurin - 06-23-2002

ok here is what I think:

Normally we should not accept this deal and it seems as if Luke cant get into Dans head that they cant pick any unofficial map...

I also think this: Many of our members want to match more, this is a golden opportunity...IF WE TRAIN HARD ON THE MAP BEFORE....remember that we get to choose sides when they pick the map.

Since I cant be home in time for matchstart on wednesday I feel that its more up to the playing team what to do and I dont want to steal anyones matchplaying fun...but if the playing team are prepared to analyze the map inside out I say go for it. If you think we will crush them just by showing up I say decline.

Of course I will train with you and help you point out the weaknesses of the map but that will have to be late evenings monday and tuesday.


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Invader_Zim - 06-23-2002

Iljurin makes good sense. We should practice the map as much as possible. Bals, I hope you change your mind and play. One thing we should make sure of is that someone is the leader during the match. When Iljurin is not there Bals does a good job directing things. When neither is there we have little or no coordination and this will be a problem in a match. I don´t care who it is but someone should be in charge of organizing things.


Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Luke - 06-24-2002

After our decision in the training this evening I sent the following eMail to SWEC:


Hi Lt. Dan Sweden,

thx again for the challenge.
As I told you we discussed the map question within CiA the last days. Your suggestion to play the Castle Keep is not acceptable for us. It is an unofficial map which can only be used if both teams agree with it. But we could understand that you like the map which you play often and so we made two accommodations towards you with the following map suggestions:
A) Castle Keep CTF, Hot metal CTF, Everon CTF
B) Castle Keep CTF, Everon CTF, Everon CTF

You rejected both suggestions. So we want to come back to the tcz rules and tell you that we want our CTF match with official maps from tcz.

See you on Wednesday.

Luke



Re: SWEC Castle keep discussion - Llauma - 06-24-2002

Well said luke.